WebWord.com > Interviews > The Dynamic Duo of Information Architecture  (18-Oct-2002)

 
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The Dynamic Duo of Information Architecture 

An Interview with Peter Morville (President, Semantic Studios) and Lou Rosenfeld (Louis Rosenfeld, LLC)

Conducted via email by John S. Rhodes (18-October-2002)


How has information architecture (IA) changed in the past few years? Any new discoveries? Any exciting research? 

Peter Morville: The first question has many answers because IA has followed totally different trajectories in different organizations.  Leading technology firms such as HP, IBM, Microsoft and PeopleSoft have taken a holistic perspective that connects IA, content management and user experience design to real business goals and metrics. 

On the other hand, I've seen a dangerous trend toward reductionism in several old-guard Fortune 500 corporations, where IA components are being created in ignorance of the big picture.  For example, I worked briefly with an international, cross-departmental team earlier this year that had been assembled to create an enterprise taxonomy.  They had no idea or interest in how this taxonomy would actually be used within the broader intranet environment, and they didn't really care how it aligned with other closely related initiatives.  I fear the inevitable backlash against IA when these companies discover their next generation web sites and intranets are composed of small pieces badly joined. 

As far new discoveries and research, no single change comes to mind. What's exciting is to see the many small changes in the world of the web and to explore how they might fit together.  Blogs, google, google news, social software, topic maps, ambient devices, web on the wall, nanotechnology and MEMS...all of this stuff will impact the future practice of information architecture. 


When does search work best? When does it fail? How does information architecture fit into the search picture? Exactly how do IA and search relate? 

Lou Rosenfeld:  I'll start with your first question and work backward from there. Peter and I see IA as being about findability, the same way usability engineering is (naturally) about usability.  Users find information by browsing, searching, asking questions, often employing a combination of these approaches.  An information architecture should ideally support the configuration of approaches users employ when finding information. So really, search fits into the information architecture picture, and not the other way around. 

When we're designing, it's important to consider this bigger picture of finding, rather than focusing on something more specific, like search. Otherwise we often end up with imbalanced designs, such as a robust search system coupled with a puny browsable taxonomy.  Or we don't integrate our architecture's searching and browsing components, which is too bad:  users often want to use these *together*, and the sum (finding) is often greater than the parts (searching, browsing, and asking). 

So when does search work best?  When there are three conditions in place: 

1) Users who know what they're looking for and know how to articulate what it is they're looking for; information scientists refer to as known-item searching.  For example, searching the staff directory for Vint Cerf's email address is likely to be successful because you know where to look, you know that the directory will provide a phone number, and you know how to articulate your need (assuming you can spell Vint Cerf correctly). 

2) Huge volumes of content that afford high levels of structure and/or metadata.  For example, if I can search an index of names in that staff directory, I'll probably have a better chance for success than if I search the full text of each entry in that directory.  Structure and metadata are tools we use to expose the answers that lie buried deep within our content. Essentially, the more we can make our content--which, on most sites, is primarily textual--behave like databases, the more successful our searches will be. 

3) An economic incentive to spend money to make search work.  Realism always manages to rear its ugly head, but yes, if there isn't a compelling business reason to invest in making the content more accessible to users, there will be fewer resources to devote to making search work well. 

So, search works less well with unstructured textual content that is not especially strategic to the organization.  And it works less well when users have open-ended information needs, in which case other techniques for finding information may be more appropriate. 


Why is it so hard to "sell" information architecture and usability? If information architecture and usability are so wonderful, why do they need to be sold at all? Are designers, project managers and even CEOs total idiots? What is going on? 

Peter Morville:  If you take a ten year perspective, we've collectively had tremendous success selling IA and usability.  There are far more people who get paid to do this work in 2002 than in 1992. 

Admittedly, it's tough to feel good about the big picture when we're experiencing the pain of a recession that has wreaked havoc throughout the whole IT industry.  It's hard to sell anything in IT right now. 

We shouldn't give up but we must focus our energies.  We should steer clear of lost causes where there simply aren't compelling business cases to be made and concentrate our efforts on the low-hanging fruit. 

For example, using controlled vocabularies to improve searching through synonym mapping can provide huge bang for the buck when focused on the most important and common searches.  To pick on HP's web site for a minute, it seems absurd that a search on "journada" is not mapped onto "jornada."  This is a common misspelling of a key product name.  Given that HP already has a mechanism for supporting best bet recommendations, the cost of tackling synonyms would be tiny. 


Is it possible to automatically generate an excellent information architecture? If yes, what tools are available? If no, why does IA demand so much human energy and attention? 

Lou Rosenfeld: No, it's not possible to automatically generate an excellent information architecture. 

OK, let me step back from that statement, but just a little.  There are aspects of a site--a shopping basket system, for example, that may be specialized enough to come out of the box.  But when you compare the architectures of Dell and Gateway, you'll find plenty of differences, even if they're in the same business.  There are simply too many variables in content, users, and business context to assume these sites could have the same architecture. 

Other architectural aspects may be automatically generated, as the folks at vendors like Autonomy will tell you.  What they didn't used to tell you was that you'd have to "train" the software to work well, and in many cases you'd need a custom taxonomy to get the software to work. Even if such tools get you 80% of the way there, which is great, you'll still have to deal with the gnarly architectural problems that make up the remaining 20%. In other words, you'll be doing something manual and custom. 

Shrink wrapped architectures don't even work for something as specialized as blogs, which come with templates that essentially constitute a default architecture.  For those of you who blog with tools like Movable Type, ask yourself how much you've configured and customized your blog when compared with the default templates.  If you haven't, I'd bet you'd like to. 

Maybe in twenty years, we'll have many more useful IA conventions, much like we have the wonderful architectural conventions of books and magazines in the world of print content.  But still, automatically structuring, organizing, and labeling content is essentially an artificial intelligence challenge, and like much else with AI, tools can get us part way there, but manual efforts are needed for that tough last mile. 


What information architecture differences are there between small web sites and large web sites? Does IA even matter for small web sites? 

Peter Morville:  On very small web sites, the impact of IA on brand identity outweighs issues of findability.  Good organization and clear, consistent labels present a positive image of the person or company behind the site.   However, sites don't have to grow very large before findability becomes a key usability problem.  The web is heavily populated by 100 page web sites that frustrate users' attempts to find what they need.  These sites may not merit a professional information architect, but they do need help from someone who understands the basics of information architecture. 


You have written about brand loyalty and information architecture a couple of times recently. Can you explain how IA generates and maintains brand loyalty? Is this just fluff or does it *really* make difference? 

Lou Rosenfeld: Providing easy access to useful information is the primary goal of many of our sites.  On the Web, competition is brutal.  One way our sites can stand out is by achieving this goal of findability better than their competitors.  Amazon does a better job than Barnes & Noble at helping me find titles easily and suggesting relevant new ones.  That's why it has my loyalty and repeat business.  But if Amazon ran physical bookstores, I might prefer a Barnes & Noble because the coffee is better and the parking more abundant.  But we're talking Web here, and findability makes a huge contribution to the brand value of many web sites.  In fact, IA can provide a stealthy competitive advantage, as people often notice it only when it stinks. 

Can I prove the brand impact of IA?  Not really; measuring the factors that contribute to branding is very difficult.  But common sense seems to indicate that findability is likely a large component of online branding. 


I care a lot about usability. When I travel and when I am in new environments I notice usability problems all the time. Does information architecture impact your life in a similar fashion? What are your IA pet peeves? Do you think about IA in your personal life? 

Peter Morville:  Yes.  Wherever I am, there's IA :-)  My major pet peeve relates to the tremendous economic and psychological losses we experience as a society due to bad street signs.  How many minutes per day are lost due to missed exits?  How many accidents are caused by panicked drivers who went the wrong way?  This is why I love Richard Ankrom's "Guerrilla Public Service" initiative to improve signs on L.A. freeways.


More than three years ago, we did Information Architecture Revealed! What do you think about it now? How did you feel then versus now? 

Lou Rosenfeld: An old Web-based interview is like your crazy aunt who lives down the street:  she crops up from time to time to embarrass you in public, and there's nothing you can do to get rid of her. 

Really, aside from some wrong ideas I had about usability, and now painful mentions of two dead endeavors (Argus and the Clearinghouse), reading it wasn't as bad as I'd imagined.  Some of the ideas actually weren't so far off. 

I hear so many Web designers discuss search and metadata these days, so I know that people with library backgrounds have indeed made an impact on the industry over the past three years.  I'm more concerned than ever that information architects, as well as others in the industry, really don't design for users' broad information needs.  And I'm no less pessimistic regarding the future of search engines. 

Overall, I'm thrilled that the field of information architecture has matured so much in such a short time.  There's more recognition of and respect for the field, more community among its practitioners, more books coming out on the topic...  And it's more obvious than ever that our future is bright. Yep, the economy is awful right now.  But I can't see how one can't be wildly optimistic about information architecture's future. 


Some people already know that I love your book, Information Architecture for the World Wide Web. How is the 2nd edition different than the 1st edition? What's new? Why did you decide to write a second edition? Can you offer WebWord readers something from the book that can't be found any other place on the web? Maybe a free book chapter, or something else? ;-) 

Peter Morville:  Well, for starters, you need to buy the 2nd edition because the 1st edition is totally wrong.  Just kidding!  Seriously, the 2nd edition is a much better book.  It's almost twice as long as the first and is packed with the lessons we learned while working on some of the world's biggest and hairiest web sites and intranets.  We wrote it because we're getting old and don't trust our memories.  Also, we wanted to drive home the message that information architecture has survived the dotcom implosion and will be around for the next 10,000 years or so.  Finally, we wanted to give something back to the IA and usability communities, and to the people who have supported our efforts through thick and thin. In this spirit of generosity peppered with a touch of enlightened self-interest, we offer a free online book chapter, available exclusively from WebWord.com.


Any last minute thoughts or comments? 

Lou Rosenfeld: Just something we'd like to point out about our book:  there are a lot of differences between the two editions, but perhaps most important (beyond sheer volume) is our focus on business context.  This is a direct response to what we've encountered in our own consulting and what we've learned from our peers:  focusing on getting content to users is an almost pointless pursuit if you don't figure in such factors as resource constraints, organizational culture, and politics into your design.  Maybe in a few years management gurus, organizational psychologists, change management experts and operations engineers will have joined the IA realm and will revolutionize IA practices around issues of business context.  In the meantime, we hope the relevant material in our second edition will be of use. 

Thanks very much for the opportunity to be interviewed John; as always, excellent questions!


Thank you Peter! Thank you Lou!

 

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