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12/12/2001 Archived Entry: "12-Dec-2001 -- WebWord Comment"

WebWord Comment -- I've been busy, busy, busy. I actually have a lot of good news to post, but I have not had the time. I'm far behind in my email. So much, that I am embarrased. Unfortunately, I'm going to be busy for several more days. At a minimum, I'm going to Denver, Colorado and Sidney, Nebraska. I'll be visiting other places too. I expect to post some news this weekend. Thanks for hanging in there while I wrap these things up. Take care of yourself.

Replies: 18 comments

John, have you considered allowing public posts, much like Fark, but usability-oriented?

Posted by Francis @ 12/12/2001 08:57 AM EST

John, have you considered allowing public posts, much like Fark, but usability-oriented?

Posted by Francis @ 12/12/2001 09:25 AM EST

I'm not so sure that we as a community could locate and post usability-oriented links about boobies and weeners.

Posted by JS @ 12/12/2001 09:25 AM EST

Frank,

I've thought about several different options. As it stands, I've had a really horrible track record at getting new things working. Failure is the norm. However, I've learned a lot about what people want at WebWord.

The Fark idea, regarding public postings, is interesting. Let me think about it. If anyone has any other ideas, that would be great. Please post ideas here.

- John

Posted by John S. Rhodes @ 12/12/2001 09:37 AM EST

Improve the search results to return pages that are parsed to only contain the link paragraphs that meet our search criteria...

Right now you give users whole pages, which forces us to scan the whole page for the link of interest, or to do our own search-in-page.

Posted by JS @ 12/12/2001 10:25 AM EST

Reverse the order of the "Link to this entry" and "Comments" links.

The "Comments" link always applies to regular users, but the "Link to this entry" only applies to people who are web site owners who also link to usability articles.

Promote usability over marketing.

Posted by JS @ 12/12/2001 10:30 AM EST

User posts are difficult to separate from each other.

Separate user comments by a horizontal line, or bold usernames (because we don't all have usernames that are blue and underlined).

Posted by JS @ 12/12/2001 10:33 AM EST

Why does the "Mobile Friendly Page" have the header slogan of "Technology - Humans - Experience" while the regular WebWord has "Industrial Strength Usability" ???

http://www.system-concepts.com/mobile/webword/

Posted by JS @ 12/12/2001 10:36 AM EST

I think a Fark-like format will encourage people to post stuff (which is what was supposed to be achieved with the WebWord mailing list).

Another Fark-like idea would be to allow the categorization of posts. Categories like on UsableWeb.com.

However, I understand that such Fark-like functions would require several administrators.

I don't know, John... just shootin' out ideas.

Posted by Francis @ 12/12/2001 03:06 PM EST

JS, yes, boobies and weeners :). He he he... Of course, such things will have to be moderated. I'm not sure John has time for this though.

However, I understand that such Fark-like functions would require several administrators.

I don't know, John... just shootin' out ideas.

Posted by Francis @ 12/12/2001 03:10 PM EST

......Improve the search results to return pages that are parsed to only contain the link paragraphs that meet our search criteria...

Right now you give users whole pages, which forces us to scan the whole page for the link of interest, or to do our own search-in-page..."

I agree that would help..but i have a question (sorry if this is off topic...email me personally if you would like) How could i implement such a thing on my site? Im using IIS 5.0 and a search engine that utilizes asp, is there anything in IIS that does such a thing? Again im sorry if this is off topic, but the person who left that comment didn't leave an email address..by the way john, thanks for this site...

Posted by Michael D'Amico @ 12/12/2001 09:43 PM EST

Oh I don't know how to implement that kind of search. I'm just spouting ideas. It's easier to critique the movie than to direct it.

I'd probably rework the link portion of WebWord using Yahoo-style portal software. John would have to categorize all of the links he posts and the front page would be a straight dump of the new links he's posted in x days. The portal software would then allow searching based on individual links. That idea is doable, but it requires a ton of work, hundreds of hours of cataloging.

Posted by JS @ 12/13/2001 12:44 AM EST

What's in a name?

FYI, the immediate impression I got when seeing the "WebWord" name for the first time was that this was a web site about online writing. e.g., either a journal/weblog about general topics, or about how to write for the web.

Posted by JS @ 12/14/2001 01:47 PM EST

If you are on the hunt for 'portal like software' I very much suggest that you try Conversant.

I can personally vouch for Conversant and Macrobyte's service with Guy Kawasaki like fervour, as will other webmasters who are also running very dynamic websites on a shoestring and doing the kind of things you are referring to here.

The admin interface does have usability problems, but the developers know this and want to do something about it. (I don't speak for the company but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours' opportunity for a usability professional). You can try it for free on their website (and luckily, once you are addicted the real thing doesn't break the bank). If you run into trouble ask on the support site, I'm constantly knocked off my feet by how fanatical the developers are about giving good support.

Cheers
Lyle

Posted by Lyle B. Højbjerg-Clarke @ 12/16/2001 01:15 PM EST

Unless I'm mistaken, Conversant is a hosted option. I much prefer software that you own and can easily move to another server, lest you become disatisfied or the hosting company disappears. Check out Links SQL. It's a Yahoo-style portal.

I haven't used the SQL version, but a while back I used their (now discontinued, but still supported) Perl version. The support forums are great and new ideas are considered.

Posted by JS @ 12/16/2001 07:54 PM EST

Yes, Conversant is a hosted solution, but still please consider them. Your fears about 'being disatisfied with' or 'the hosting company disappears' should not apply in the normal hosting company sense, as they are not a hosting company (in the normal sense of the word) but a custom development company and consulting company.

I understand the advantage and the security of owning the software and being able to move to a new host, but I believe that the advantages that Macrobyte offer far outweigh that ability. (Also, I am not sure that wouldn't let you host the software and host it on your own host, I know for a fact that they have consulting clients that are doing just that).

However (just to show that I am not totally fanatical) if it really is a Yahoo style links directory/portal you are looking for, then Conversant is not the best way of doing this. (It does however have a feature called WebOutlines, with which one can build a Yahoo-like portal that would do the job quite nicely for a human manageable amounts of links (for example if you didn't just want to list anybody, but only those you could keep track of/trust).

Cheers
Lyle

Posted by Lyle B. Højbjerg-Clarke @ 12/17/2001 05:02 AM EST

Why not have the web board here similar to that of Slashdot (www.slashdot.org), which promotes use of its format with its re-distributable Slash code (http://slashcode.com/faq.shtml#Slashcodecom0). Using this format, users can post stories, admins can approve stories, and moderators can score comments to mod a them up or down. Content will be fresh making the page content ever-dynamic.

Here is a list of sites who are using the same codebase:
http://slashcode.com/sites.pl

It's worth some serious thought.

Posted by dego @ 12/17/2001 12:28 PM EST

A basic drawback to hosted services is longevity. John is amassing a huge amount of data over what will surely be many years. This data only has value if it can be presented in a manageable form.

Hosting, by its very nature, is temporary. You simply cannot count on any dot-com (or even brick 'n' mortar) company to be there for you in the future.

Whatever John does, he should ensure that his data is not locked into a proprietary storage format so that he can port it when the time comes.

Posted by JS @ 12/17/2001 01:13 PM EST

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