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WebWord Weblog Posting Posting Date: June 12, 2002 WebWord Comment -- I'm at it again. Another experiment. Here is an earlier experiment still in progress. Your opinions matter to me. Fire away!
Reader Comments...
MadMan thinks I should ask this question: "Did you spot the ad?" It is a good question. My guess is that you did not see the advertisement. It is tough. I want to balance usability, of course, with these kinds of opportunities. I'm trying to learn about what I can and cannot do. As MadMan privately told me, I should move the advertisement to the top of the page and change it slightly, perhaps by adding a a background color. For a day or two I'll leave the ad where it is. Let me know what you think. So, did you see the advertisement? Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 12, 2002 12:46 AM
why do you call these expiraments? why dont you just own up to the fact you need cash to pay for your efforts? its not a sin. i'd rather you be honest. Posted by: on June 12, 2002 12:47 AM
Because, quite honestly, these really are experiments. I'm looking at things like... 1. Reader impressions of advertisements. Do they suck? Do they hate them? What makes ads good and bad? How are usability and advertising tied together? 2. New ways to obtain and pay for advertising. For example, has any other site tried using eBay to determine the right price for email advertising? From what I know, I'm the first to try this. (It would be cool if this was picked up as a story. Hint, hint.) 3. How can a usability web site, dedicated to simplicity, generate revenue from content and page views? What are the ways to make money yet still keep a web site usable? What are the things to understand? 4. I'm not curious about making a little bit of money. A couple hundred dollars is a lot, yes, but it won't feed me or pay the bills. The model has to really work. I make a lot more money via consulting than advertising. However, what if I could get away from consulting and turn WebWord into the site on usability and related topics? What if I could help all the usability consultants? What if I could turn WebWord into a publication of some sort? I really am curious. I am experimenting. Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 12, 2002 12:56 AM
"There are currently over 2,200 subscribers. Therefore, if you win this auction, you will reach over 11,000 WebWord Addiction readers." Can you explain this math? Do you really think that every one of your subscribers passes every one of your newsletters on to 5 other people? I don't...perhaps 1 in 20 newsletters (at most) contains something that I personally forward to someone else. Posted by: Steve on June 12, 2002 07:43 AM
I think the second post was from Jakob... heheheh. so he does read your site John! Posted by: on June 12, 2002 08:17 AM
Steve, Sorry for the confusion. The auction states that the advertisement will run in five (5) editions of the WebWord Addiction. Since there are over 2,200 subscribers and since I will list the ad (at least) five times, it will indeed be displayed in over 11,000 email messages. I should not say that it will reach over 11,000 people. Instead, I should say that you will get over 11,000 impressions (5 newsletters x 2,200+ people = over 11,000 impressions). I think there is an interesting debate about showing the same advertisment 5 times to fewer people is better than showing the advertisement once to more people. I'd be very interested to learn more about this. In any event, thanks for asking your question. Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 12, 2002 08:20 AM
John, I do believe that sending the same ad 5 times to the same people is better than sending it to 5 different groups of people. Especially if the group is the target audience of the products being advertised. It's the basic principle of repetition. The reason you see the same billboard on the highway for miles. Notice it the second time, read it the third and remember it the fourth... I'll have to go back and check my research on advertising effects and get back to you on it. Posted by: Berna on June 12, 2002 08:30 AM
BTW, I hadn't noticed the ad on your site upon arrival. I had to go back after reading the comments and then I saw it. I agree with MadMan's comments. But I also believe that it might not be necessary to move the ad to the top. Just changing the background color, or the font color, size or type might suffice. But the way that it stands now, it looks alot like the other links. For users who visit your site everyday, like me [:o)], this doesnt attract our attention. We don't notice that something has changed. That's my two cents on the topic. Posted by: Berna on June 12, 2002 08:38 AM
Why don't you just set up a way to get donations through PayPal or something. This way, you can get donations from people who do not want to win your auction. "Help support this site and donate etc." I think the ads and advertisements lower the quality of the newsletter. And, what's the point anyway, Web designers/usability experts advertising to Web designers/usability experts? Will you let anyone advertise? I'm sure they are a talented company but take a look at Red Horizon's own Web site. "We proudly employ structured usability engineering guidelines" is what it says in the ad but if you look at their page, it doesn't render properly in Opera, you can't read the black menu text on the red background side bar. One look at their clients page and all those logos look like ads. (Yes I've read Jacob's books...at least parts anyway) Is this site and ad a joke or something? I'm am by no means an expert and maybe I'm just ignorant because I didn't read Jacob's book entirely but this site is like the poster site for what NOT to do. I take one look at that and totally dismiss them as knowing anything about practicing usability guidelines and then I start to wonder about the credibility of your own newsletter because of this this ad for this company. Will you just whore out ad space in your newsletter to anyone? Anyway, just my 2 cents. I need to go and violate some usability guideline somewhere. Regards.
let go of the anger, buddy Posted by: on June 12, 2002 01:12 PM
Now that we're talking about Red Horizon, I had to go take a look. I'm not impressed by the graphics. They look like stock clip-art. Tell me that the guy in the suit running with the briefcase on the track, breaking through the finishing line tape, is the company's president, and then I will be impressed. Posted by: on June 12, 2002 01:24 PM
I'll have to make sure that Red Horizon finds out that we've been talking about them. Publicity is publicity, right? And, even if some of the comments are negative, Red Horizon can make changes to improve their site. I guess that is a good reason to advertise on a site about usability. It is something I didn't think much about, until now. Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 12, 2002 02:02 PM
Ok seriously, I would also rather that nobody posted anonymously on Webword. I second the anonymous post at 1:24pm. I looked at Red Horizon's website. It looks like something that was very quickly put together in Dreamweaver or something. I especially didn't like their products page, with the icons. They look like they dont belong there. Posted by: Berna on June 12, 2002 02:27 PM
I like the experiments, and I hope you'll report on the results! Posted by: PeterV on June 12, 2002 04:08 PM
Forget about whether I spotted the ad. Spotting is not the problem. You can fill my screen with the advertisement if you're worried I might miss it. Let's talk about whether the click-through page is effective. After reading about WebWord Addiction I still don't know what it is. OK, it is a daily newsletter. So what? Show me a sample copy so I know what I'm subscribing to. I've previously subscribed to the "low-volume, periodic" newsletter, but found it to be a rehashing of the web site. I read the web site every day, so the newsletter is of no interest. So what will the daily newsletter give me? A daily rehashing, or something new?
While I'm thinking about it... Why should regular WebWorders bother with a WebWord newsletter? What would John say in e-mail that he couldn't/shouldn't say on his web site? Yeah, a newsletter benefits infrequent users, but not daily users. And boy, given that WebWord has daily content, infrequent users are getting a very tiny snapshot of the WebWord universe. Too bad for them. Posted by: Jack redux on June 12, 2002 04:22 PM
Good point, Jack. I subscribed to the newsletter a couple of days back because I'm planning an article on improving email newsletter. Straight off, I could spot a major usability boo-boo. The first screen of the email has nothing except sender details. First, there was a big banner ad (a text equivalent anyway) for Webword's consulting services, then the title, author, date, URL, all on separate lines. Then there was a sponsor ad. I had to scroll twice before I saw content. Of course, John's probably experimenting, but a newsletter must respect my time, something that's usually in short supply. You're right about regulars not *needing* the newsletter. You know what's worse? That John will never know how many people visited those sites by clicking links in the newsletter. In fact, there's absolutely no way to measure how many people are actually reading it, or clicking on links. For all you know, the 2000+ readers could be trashing it straight away (a hypothetical situation, of course.) And when John makes guesses about the readership demographics, he's groping in the dark. There's no way to know if the people reading the newsletter are investment bankers, architects, usability specialists, HTML coders, graphic designers, or janitors. Why? Because no such info is collected anywhere. Even if 100% of the readers are usability specialists, why on earth would a usability company sell themselves to *those* people? I'd be far more interested in VPs of marketing, corporate communications, project managers, etc. -people who might *need* my services. Selling advertising is going to be a tough one. Posted by: MadMan on June 12, 2002 06:15 PM
John, You said "I guess that is a good reason to advertise on a site about usability" well to take that thought a bit further, why don't you set up a forum where people can submit sites and have readers constructively criticise them. Get peer reviews or something. And to Mr. Anonymous regarding my "anger", you are confusing your sensitivity of the topic with anger when it is actually constructive criticism. I'm not criticising Red Horizon for the sake of criticising them. The topic was about the ads in WebWord and their effect. That was the effect I got. It's my opinion and I was asked for it. Regards. Posted by: MH on June 12, 2002 07:18 PM
About the ad:
Jack wrote: "Let's talk about whether the click-through page is effective. After reading about WebWord Addiction I still don't know what it is. OK, it is a daily newsletter. So what? Show me a sample copy so I know what I'm subscribing to." I thought about this two days ago. I realized that the page offered very little and certainly did NOT explain the WebWord Addiction. Providing examples is exactly the right thing to do. Wouldn't even be that hard to set up. Thanks.
"I've previously subscribed to the "low-volume, periodic" newsletter, but found it to be a rehashing of the web site. I read the web site every day, so the newsletter is of no interest. So what will the daily newsletter give me? A daily rehashing, or something new? What does it offer? Convenience. Saves some people time. Some people like push better than pull. some people like email over visiting web pages. Some people like to save the emails as a record. So, convenience. The low volume newsletter also offers convenience. It is a digest. I filter out the day to day noise so you don't have to. Some people relly only care about the articles, reports, and interviews on WebWord. Also, I do almost always add a short editorial where I cover something new or add a spin to the newsletter.
MadMan wrote: I subscribed to the newsletter a couple of days back because I'm planning an article on improving email newsletter. Straight off, I could spot a major usability boo-boo. The first screen of the email has nothing except sender details. First, there was a big banner ad (a text equivalent anyway) for Webword's consulting services, then the title, author, date, URL, all on separate lines. Then there was a sponsor ad. I had to scroll twice before I saw content. Of course, John's probably experimenting, but a newsletter must respect my time, something that's usually in short supply. I've used this newsletter format for quite a long time. No real complaints from people. Of course, that doesn't mean that it is the right way to do it. Not at all. But, at least people aren't flaming mad. I would have changed the format if there were complaints. I'm sure where else to place header information. Yes, I could nuke the ad about WebWord's services. But, I would keep most of the rest of the information. Placing the advertisement near the top of the newsletter is only fair, right? So, perhaps yes, you might have to scroll a little bit. It is tough to balance my needs, advertiser needs, and reader needs. I respect everyone's time. Seriously. Too much email is a bad thing. Email that is too long is a bad thing.
You're right about regulars not *needing* the newsletter. I agree. People don't *need* the newsletter. However, it is convenient. Perhaps if I added other value to it...? But, getting the time to do that is, well, going to be very, very hard. I'd almost have to charge money to do much more than what I do now. There just isn't enough time. I'd start eating into activities that actually put food on the table. (Still, you make a good point.)
This is something I have been thinking about. I didn't realize how *little* I know about my readers. Funny, right? How do you balance privacy, especially on a usability site, with gathering demographic information. I want to know about you...but I don't. I should probably set up a reader survey. Shouldn't be hard to do. Thoughts? The problem with tracking URLs (with backend CGI program, blah, blah, blah) is that people don't like it. One piece of very interesting feedback is that people look at the URLs to decide if they are going to visit the page that I point to. I've received this feedback several times. It is kind of cool. How do I balance my desire to track clickthrus with reader desire to see URLs?
And when John makes guesses about the readership demographics, he's groping in the dark. There's no way to know if the people reading the newsletter are investment bankers, architects, usability specialists, HTML coders, graphic designers, or janitors. Why? Because no such info is collected anywhere. True. Mostly. Please remember that I have been doing WebWord as WebWord for almost 4 years now. I have interacted with hundreds of readers during that time. I do have a pretty good feel for who is visiting. No data, of course, but I do see a lot of sig files, for example. Some people tell me who they are. I'm not 100% blind. Despite this, I don't know and I need to run a survey, or start asking for demographic information (yuck).
Even if 100% of the readers are usability specialists, why on earth would a usability company sell themselves to *those* people? I'd be far more interested in VPs of marketing, corporate communications, project managers, etc. -people who might *need* my services. Many people are not plugged into usability. That is, they are interested in usability, but they don't do it. They want to know more, and they need help. That is how we get clients. Project managers, developers, and so forth, are here. They do need help. However, you are right about higher level executives. They are *not* here from what I can tell. Perhaps this is an area that I need to explore: Usability for Executives.
Selling advertising is going to be a tough one. Maybe. However, I have generated some revenue. Nothing amazing, but enough to get me interested in running more ads. Here is my thought experiment. How could I make my living only running WebWord with no consulting or any other money coming in? That is, how could I make money from sponsorships, ads, reports, and so forth, full time? It is an interesting set of questions. It is why I am running these experiments. (I feel like I was just interviewed.)
MH wrote: You said "I guess that is a good reason to advertise on a site about usability" well to take that thought a bit further, why don't you set up a forum where people can submit sites and have readers constructively criticise them. Get peer reviews or something. I've thought about forums in the past. I've thought about them just for the sake of having them and I've thought about them for-profit. I'm not quite ready to jump into them yet. I need to think about it more; research it more. Thanks for the reminder. Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 13, 2002 06:49 AM
Matt Rhodes wrote: John, I suggest you switch between different spots on the page and have everyone give their comments about how "annoying" the ad is when you move it to different spots on the page, while checking how many clickthroughs to link. It might be interesting if you made a tiny graphic button for the newsletter, keeping it small so the page still loads relatively fast -- that is, if you want more clickthroughs. Just experiment. See what everyone thinks. To tell the truth, I didn't even notice that you changed the links on the side because I usually just read the daily information. Moving the advertisement on the WebWord home page is a good idea. Right now, it just blends right in. It doesn't take any value away from the main content. That's good. It doesn't offer as much value as it could add for advertisers. That's bad. I need to spice it up, at least a little bit. A small graphic for the newsletter is also a good idea. Maybe I don't need to "fear" images as much as I once did. WebWord loads quickly. I've never had a complaint about that. Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 13, 2002 06:55 AM
John, As there were discussions about adding forums onto Webword, if I remember correctly, there were also discussions of some of your frequent readers helping you. You know if you need research or an article or a survey to be prepared you could use their (I should really say "our") help. But I dont remember how that discussion had concluded nor if you had made a decision on the topic. And what do you think of this approach? Do you think it might work for you and for Webword?
As expected, the bid is now over $100 with just over a day left for the auction. While some people might have good arguments against the value of the advertisements, I do think the are many reasons why the advertisements are effective. With that said, what do you think are the good things about the advertisements that I have not discussed? If we focus on the positive side of the ads, what do we see? Posted by: John S. Rhodes on June 13, 2002 09:27 AM
John said: How do I balance my desire to track clickthrus with reader desire to see URLs? #1 You can track clicks via a CGI, while masking the CGI with javascript so that users see the destination URL. Users would have to look at your page source to realize you were tracking clicks. This idea is probably not feasible though. Suggest to the programmer(s) that a click logging mechanism be added to Moveable Type. #2 Run URLs through a CGI. Then, after the link, add in brackets the domain you linked to. Something like this: Slashdot sucks [dhs.org] That way you can link to a CGI and I won't mind as much.
Where is the Addiction newsletter? Now all I see is an advertisement for Krug's book. Posted by: on June 13, 2002 11:54 AM
Very interesting. I guess John has made it so the text in the area where the "Webword Addiction" alternates with Krug's book every other page view. I'm going to have to find out how to do that, could come in handy for me... :) Posted by: Matt Rhodes on June 13, 2002 03:12 PM
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