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WebWord Weblog Posting Posting Date: September 29, 2002 defending design decisions to usability nutters (Yay Hooray) -- "First some usability evangelist disses elasticspace for lack of contrast, then posts new threads about it again, and again, and again, and again, and again. What a loon!" (Comments: Jack the Loon.)
Reader Comments...
Below are some of the most interesting and important quotes from the page. As you can tell, the designers don't like us. I can't say that I blame them. We are often annoying, aggressive, and myopic. But, the thing they miss is that we tend to be the most anti-usability group of usability community. If anything, we are fighting for them more than any other usability web site or group. We aren't afraid to attack and criticize usability itself. I'm not always sure about other folks here, but I'm not afraid to reflect on my own lack of design skills. I cannot always do what is right for the users. But, I will say this: I do what I can, when I can. And, when designers tell me WebWord is ugly, I respect their opinion. I don't seek revenge and I don't get upset. I appreciate the feedback. It is gold.
"Does anybody have a bookmarklet that will apply a good design to webword, so that its less glaring and headache inducing? Would be great if this bookmarklet used about 200 years of typography, design, and aesthetic knowledge into creating a complementary colour scheme, legible type-treatment, balanced layout and good information architecture please." "i think we need a new term to go with usability expert - usability loser." "One day they might wake up and realise that the answer to many of their problems is contained in the intricacies of 200 years of design history. If they bothered to look." "This is something that critics of Nielsen and the others don't seem to grasp. The people are not designers, and they don't have those skills. What they do know how to do is make life easier for the average user. Don't treat them like they're rejects from the DeVry school of design: they aren't designers." "i'm also disappointed by the fact that many usability experts refuse to recognize that many designers are as knowledgeable, if not moreso, in the very same usability principles they preach." "I just scanned some of the pages on webword and from what I could make up - that site really is a pain in its content structure - it more likely seems that they (the Nielsen enthousiasts with Jack in particular) feel threatened by the fact that there can be such a thing as usable and good-looking."
Thanks John, that thread really cracked me up. I stopped when someone suggested I was schooled by Filbert. Hee hee. How many of those guys are consultants? Posted by: Jack on September 29, 2002 04:48 PM
What I find so interesting about this whole situation is how quickly everything got out of hand. Timo said that perceiving poor contrast was a matter of personal preference, not usability, Jack felt insulted, and away we go. I guess I'm too much of a Libra, and I want both sides to see eye-to-eye. It would have been so nice to wave a wand and have Jack say "You're right, I do prefer lettering that is of high contrast and is easier to see as a result." and Timo would say "I understand, but I'm striving for a certain look and feel, so I'm willing to sacrifice accessibility for some visitors in order to give everyone else a really cool experience." Then everyone has a nice laugh and moves on to the next topic. Then again, they say that conflict moves progress forward, so who am I to say? ;) Posted by: Lydia on September 30, 2002 02:43 AM
I don't expect them to be designers, but understanding, collaboration, and mutual respect between our professions wouldn't hurt would it? There are some positive comments encouraging understanding and co-operation, although it's always easier to go for the cheap laugh rather than discuss a way forward (I plead guilty m'lud). In my wardrobe I have a number of hats including: Designer, Programmer, Usabiliteer, Tester, User and Clown. I choose to inhabit Webword mainly because it is possible (nay encouraged) to be critical of usability in a constructive manner. Posted by: Mac on September 30, 2002 03:22 AM
PS. I do agree that Jack is mad. (In a constructive kind of way) Posted by: Mac on September 30, 2002 03:24 AM
PPS. Can we get Lydia into the Whitehouse or United Nations? I would vote for her. Posted by: Mac on September 30, 2002 03:25 AM
Mac, which definition of mad fits me? Curious how madness has slightly varied connotations. Here's a link I posted last night, then pulled because I thought it was over-the-top for WebWord (at least as a front page vehicle for "Jack's gripes"). I'm curious whether you think I was correct to self-censor. E-mail newsletter report for sale -- "Our 186-page report from the usability study is available for download." (Jack comments: When did "available for download" begin meaning "accessible only after purchase?" Anyhow, please critique this latest product summary.) Posted by: Jack on September 30, 2002 08:19 AM
Temporarily or apparently deranged by violent sensations, emotions, or ideas Posted by: Mac on September 30, 2002 08:55 AM
Violent? I recall one time saying I'd smack a certain person if he was in the room. If this is reoccurring, I'd appreciate seeing a sample of my violent tendencies. You know, a virtual intervention. Posted by: Jack on September 30, 2002 09:03 AM
Jack, please see my comments here. Oh, and BTW? You might say I'm a consultant - I'm lead IA for the Tokyo office of Razorfish. I daresay that counts, but I'm not sure what your point is. Does that mean that anything I say is therefore more valid, simply as a function of my job description? Posted by: Adam Greenfield on September 30, 2002 09:18 AM
My personal observation with consultants is that most of them could not hold down a staff position - and that's why they're independent consultants. It's easier to move from client to client without expectations placed on your work in a consistent manner by the same people. Ya, ya, I just infuriated every consultant in the room. They'll probably counter that it's more difficult being a consultant because of the diverse expectations placed on you, how complacent a "settled in" staffer can get, etc. etc. etc. Hey, it's just my observation. Most of the consultant resumes I see are littered with unacceptable designs. When I and others ask critical questions about their work, they crumble. (Just so you know, my online persona is nothing like my real-life persona. I'm entirely pleasant in person.) They are not prepared for the level of scrutiny they receive in a team environment. They have to learn to shift from pleasing a client to interacting with coworkers who are as knowledgeable about the product as the original designer. A proper team environment leaves you exposed, with all your cards out on the table. Remember, most web consultants don't land contracts with Big Boy corporations who will give a fair amount of scrutiny. Most designers are creating web sites for small businesses. Posted by: Jack on September 30, 2002 09:38 AM
Hey Lydia, I am also a Libra :) When NNg visited Hong Kong, one slide I particularly liked was the diagram of the table with the 4 legs representing - design, engineering, usability and marketing. If there is too much of one, the table becomes unstable. This is my basic approach project work. Posted by: daniel szuc on September 30, 2002 10:32 AM
How many usability consultants are Librans? How many Librans are consultants? How many consultants are consultants? *Sounds like a Marx Brothers sketch* Posted by: daniel szuc on September 30, 2002 10:37 AM
I have a Moon in Libra, though I don't believe jack in astrology (or anything else for that matter.) Posted by: MadMan on September 30, 2002 12:46 PM
Jack, I don't think you should have censored that post - it brings up a really good point about "bait and switch" - I feel like "available for download" means no strings attached, but I would be interested in other POVs. Mac, my cheeks are now red - that was such a nice thing to say. :) Daniel, I knew there was a reason I liked you right away! (grin) I also like that diagram you mentioned - do you have a link to an example? Posted by: Lydia on September 30, 2002 01:53 PM
its all in good fun
Hi Lydia, would be pleased to email you a scanned copy. Is still dont understand the argument. Designers have a huge role to play in projects and IMHO the great designers always have end users at the forefront of their minds and there are many recent and excellent products to show for this. One of the greatest thinkers of our time - Da Vinci - also wore many hats. Another example are *participatory* "design sessions" that involve end users, designers, developers and usability folk. The key is whatever role your play as long as you keep some focus on the people you are developing the system for and to remember that in many cases 'you are your end user'. Posted by: daniel szuc on September 30, 2002 11:43 PM
Whoops ... :) "you are not your end user" *bows head and finds a corner to hide* Posted by: daniel szuc on September 30, 2002 11:45 PM
Cool, Daniel! Please e-mail me via yahoo: retrogirl56 (at yahoo.com). Thanks! As for the designer vs. user experience argument, I find that typically heads butt when we are talking about the opposite ends of the spectrum. The really hard-core "type-all-over-the-page-in-many-primary-colors" type of designers cannot be understood by the Jakobian "must be usable at all costs" type of UE, and vice versa. Most other designers and usability types fall somewhere in the middle, and (at least in my experience) find more common ground. My best friend is a designer, and we always get into mock arguments where he is looking at some horrid layout and praising its existential qualities or some such, and I'm saying "but, you can't tell where the headline is! All you really need is just some 42 point black Times right there, where the eye naturally goes to first." It's our way of keeping ourselves in check and having a wicked laugh at the same time. Posted by: Lydia on October 1, 2002 12:11 PM
No worries Lydia. I will have it sent to you by end of this week. Posted by: daniel szuc on October 2, 2002 12:21 AM
Lydia: Re: your first post; good suggestions. I was going to write something to that effect in one of the eight or so threads it has been discussed in. But I haven't commented further - it is difficult to see past Jack's attitude, nor do I want to stir any further threatening outbursts over such a minor issue. On a positive note, the constructive feedback here has been useful. Jack's Soul Destroying Site Review™ has stirred ongoing work in alternative styles, and further user-testing in JAWS as well as visual/text browsers. In some ways I would like to demonstrate the promise of technology (specifically structural/semantic markup and flexible author/user styles), not just provide a 'personal site'. But that is perhaps a little way off. Thanks. Posted by: Timo on October 2, 2002 04:17 AM
Cool, Daniel, thanks a lot! Timo, it's cool to hear you found a positive direction out of the discussions that took place. :) Posted by: Lydia on October 2, 2002 07:23 PM
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