Everybody says McDonald's marketing, taste engineering and experience control is a big factor in the burger chain's success-why don't I know the names of any of the people responsible for it?

Posted by: on October 31, 2002 11:28 PM

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But people in the fast food industry probably DO know the names of the people behind McDonald's success. Similarly, people in the motor industry probably know the names of the designers of the top-selling cars (Mondeo, Vectra, BMW 5 series etc.). But the man in the street wouldn't know them from Adam. In Amazon's case, you'd think that people who are heavily involved in the web industry would know a few of their designer / usability engineer's names. But we don't.

Posted by: Alan Fisher on November 1, 2002 04:03 AM

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I doubt people in the food industry know each other. VPs and CEOs will know each other. The mid-level people who are the real brains won't know each other unless they communicate online in a mailing list or web community.

The only web designers I know post on mailing lists or web forums, or are independent consultants who operate their own sites, or write for free web sites like B&A. This has nothing to do with Amazon, Google, Yahoo, etc. hiding its staff. It has to do with how much the individual employees promote themselves online. We don't hear much from the real brains in the industry because they're usually too busy working. Such companies do not appreciate employees discussing their internal work publicly. That's done in the media by higher-ups experienced with handling journalists. Instead, we most commonly hear from the consultants and self-promoters.

Posted by: on November 1, 2002 09:37 AM

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Who cares? Why is everyone so concerned with being recognized? Is this really news?

Posted by: Bryan Hara on November 1, 2002 09:58 AM

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Knowing the names of people who do things is very important. It turns what we do into a human activity rather than a bland corporate one.

We should all know who Wes Cherry is.

It is important to know "who did that" - and it's a much bigger issue than simply "denial of the author's rights".
It is extremely important for makers to know about other makers - and for users to know who made the things they use.
Dust or Magic by Bob Hughes

Signing our work creates a connection between the developer and the user.
The user can see who created the software and how to get in touch with that person.
Software Craftmanship by Pete McBreen

Posted by: Mac on November 1, 2002 10:13 AM

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Great interview. I look forward to reading the book. My biggest hurdle is always having to convince internal stakeholders that IA and usability practices are truly important. I am a very poor "convincer." Maybe this book can help me.

Posted by: boysen on November 1, 2002 10:20 AM

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"Who cares? Why is everyone so concerned with being recognized?"

In this instance, I don't care about recognition or the human element. Instead, I care about knowing what education, skills, and history these people have. I'd also like to know more about how the sausage is made behind the scenes. How is Amazon different? Is it different?

Posted by: John S. Rhodes on November 1, 2002 10:36 AM

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I'm not sure I care about the human element OR the education, skills, and history of Amazon's designers or usability folks. I've actually wondered a LOT about this particular question:

--why don't the people involved with the biggest, most sucessful, and most often-cited-as-good sites (eBay, Amazon, maybe Google) partipate in the online groups that could benefit from them the most? Where are the Amazon IAs on SIG-IA? Has a usability person from eBay _ever_ posted to CHI-WEB? Are they really working so hard that they have no chance to join in?

--conversely, why is it so hard to find good examples of the work of the people who *do* participate often, and well, in those places? There are vocal, professional, helpful, and insightful people there, but it's rare to be able to link them with particular peices of work. It's really only once one gets to know people off-list that one can find out.

Is this really just a case of public modesty, or some bizarre NDA that forbids people from even mentioning that they worked on a project?

Posted by: Andrew on November 4, 2002 12:45 PM

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Well, I've followed this conversation off and on in different forums for a bit, and have held back responding, just to avoid the impression of "me - me, look at me" - But here I am anyhow. I'm a web developer at amazon.com, one of many (honestly unsure of the number, somewhere around 100+ in the US). The design/IA input we get to wield varies, just like any other large site I imagine - anything from total ownership (concept/images/UI/Copy/HTML/Code) to executing someone else's design (HTML Monkey).

The designs, layout, UI, practically everything are large group efforts, with lots of input from design, web devs, PMs, user groups, VPs, and yes, the CEO. Rarely is any one piece truly owned by one person. The idea may originate from one source, but by the time it's live, it's gone through quite a process.

Why don't you see more involvement from folks at big sites in online discussion groups? Honestly, that seems a whole series of individual decisions. Lately I've been personally involved with developing projects based on Amazon's webservices, so I'm somewhat involved with a couple of discussion groups there, but informally so. We're not discouraged from participating.

We're here, we're human, and yes, quite a number of us even do things outside of Amazon.com, and no, there isn't some draconian NDA that prohibits us from talking about work - but at the same time, we want to be careful, this is a very competitive space. Plus, I do think there is a genuine sense of modesty (for various valid reasons, both personal and professional).

So now some of you know the name of at least one person involved with Amazon - does it really make a difference?

Posted by: Alan Taylor on November 11, 2002 05:38 PM

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